**************************************************************************** >C O M P U T E R U N D E R G R O U N D< >D I G E S T< *** Volume 1, Issue #1.05 (April 22, 1990) ** **************************************************************************** MODERATORS: Jim Thomas / Gordon Meyer REPLY TO: TK0JUT2@NIU.bitnet COMPUTER UNDERGROUND DIGEST is an open forum dedicated to sharing information among computerists and to the presentation and debate of diverse views. -------------------------------------------------------------------- DISCLAIMER: The views represented herein do not necessarily represent the views of the moderators. Contributors assume all responsibility for assuring that articles submitted do not violate copyright protections. -------------------------------------------------------------------- *************************************************************** *** Computer Underground Digest Issue #1.05 / File 2 of 5 *** *************************************************************** ------------------ FROM THE MAIL BAG: ------------------ Date: Tue, 3 Apr 90 20:33:07 GMT From: Ed Ravin Subject: Re: Legion of Doom Rebuttal to Moderator Reply-to: Ed Ravin Summary: overzealous law enforcement? In article <5462@accuvax.nwu.edu> %of TELECOM DIGEST% Gene Spafford writes: >Now maybe there are one or two people on the law enforcement side who >are a little over-zealous (but not the few I talk with on a regular >basis). For someone to be indicted requires that sufficient evidence >be collected to convince a grand jury -- [...] that the evidence shows >a high probability that the crimes were committed. Here in New York, and other places as well, grand juries are known for being tools of prosecutors, in that the prosecutor is able to manipulate the evidence presented before them as much as he or she likes in order to convince the grand jury to indict or not indict as the prosecutor desires. Every now and then some newspaper here calls for the abolishment of the grand jury system entirely because it is merely an extension of the prosecutor's will. This isn't true everywhere -- things vary. But in most cases, a grand jury is not a check against an overzealous prosecutor. >Search warrants require probable >cause and the action of judges who will not sign imprecise and poorly >targeted warrants. 2600 magazine a few years ago reprinted the courtroom transcripts for a search warrant issued for a particular bulletin board system at a particular phone number. The local police testified that they hadn't actually been able to verify that a BBS was at this number, because the number was always busy. They did not present any evidence that the BBS had been involved in any illegal activity, except that its phone number had been found on another BBS. The judge signed the warrant anyway. The legal system can be abused for anyone, including mafioso. We should be especially vigilant of possible abuse when it comes to these computer-related cases, because not only is the legal system is still sorting out what is a crime, but prosecutors, police and judges are still learning what computers are, and the media exaggeration and sensationalization of any computer-related case tends to make it difficult for remote observers (like here in Telecom) to make informed opinions. -- Ed Ravin | hombre!dasys1!eravin | "A mind is a terrible thing (BigElectricCatPublicUNIX)| eravin@dasys1.UUCP | to waste-- boycott TV!" --------------------------+----------------------+----------------------------- Reader bears responsibility for all opinions expressed in this article. ============================================================================== ------------- "Pain Hertz" had a question we couldn't answer. Perhaps somebody else can: ------------- I recall seeing a text file about a BBS in Ca. whos sysop was the defendent in a lawsuit involving LD access codes. It seems that an 'automessage' was posted with the codes and a PacBell employee logged on finding them. This was several years ago and stirred a debate over the liability of a BBS sysop. I would like to know how this was resolved. I will try to find the original text file. If I recall correctly, this BBS was located in San Diego. %from Pain Hertz% =+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+ + END THIS FILE + +=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+===+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=  Downloaded From P-80 International Information Systems 304-744-2253 12yrs+