Received: by lemuria.sai.com (/\==/\ Smail3.1.21.1 #21.11) id ; Tue, 22 Dec 92 03:34 EST Received: from uicvm.uic.edu by mv.MV.COM (5.65/1.35) id AA06509; Tue, 22 Dec 92 03:16:12 -0500 Message-Id: <9212220816.AA06509@mv.MV.COM> Received: from NIU.BITNET by UICVM.UIC.EDU (IBM VM SMTP V2R1) with BSMTP id 9692; Tue, 22 Dec 92 02:20:45 CST Date: Mon, 21 Dec 92 23:52 CST To: TK0JUT1@NIU.BITNET From: TK0JUT2%NIU.bitnet@UICVM.UIC.EDU Subject: Cu Digest, #4.67 Computer underground Digest Sun Dec 20, 1992 Volume 4 : Issue 67 ISSN 1067-672X Editors: Jim Thomas and Gordon Meyer (TK0JUT2@NIU.BITNET) Archivist: Brendan Kehoe Shadow-Archivists: Dan Carosone / Paul Southworth Ralph Sims / Jyrki Kuoppala Copy Iditor: Etaion Shrdlu, Junior CONTENTS, #4.67 (Dec 20, 1992) File 1--Thanks to all and see ya Jan 9th File 2--Secret Service Raids Dorm File 3--Tales From the Crackdown File 4--SYSLAW (Review #1) File 5--SYSLAW (Review #2) File 6--Model BBS/User Contract (from SYSLAW) Cu-Digest is a weekly electronic journal/newsletter. Subscriptions are available at no cost from tk0jut2@mvs.cso.niu.edu. The editors may be contacted by voice (815-753-6430), fax (815-753-6302) or U.S. mail at: Jim Thomas, Department of Sociology, NIU, DeKalb, IL 60115. Issues of CuD can also be found in the Usenet comp.society.cu-digest news group; on CompuServe in DL0 and DL4 of the IBMBBS SIG, DL1 of LAWSIG, and DL0 and DL12 of TELECOM; on Genie in the PF*NPC RT libraries; from America Online in the PC Telecom forum under "computing newsletters;" on the PC-EXEC BBS at (414) 789-4210; in Europe from the ComNet in Luxembourg BBS (++352) 466893; and using anonymous FTP on the Internet from ftp.eff.org (192.88.144.4) in /pub/cud, red.css.itd.umich.edu (141.211.182.91) in /cud, halcyon.com (192.135.191.2) in /pub/mirror/cud, and ftp.ee.mu.oz.au (128.250.77.2) in /pub/text/CuD. European readers can access the ftp site at: nic.funet.fi pub/doc/cud. Back issues also may be obtained from the mail server at mailserv@batpad.lgb.ca.us. COMPUTER UNDERGROUND DIGEST is an open forum dedicated to sharing information among computerists and to the presentation and debate of diverse views. CuD material may be reprinted for non-profit as long as the source is cited. Some authors do copyright their material, and they should be contacted for reprint permission. It is assumed that non-personal mail to the moderators may be reprinted unless otherwise specified. Readers are encouraged to submit reasoned articles relating to computer culture and communication. Articles are preferred to short responses. Please avoid quoting previous posts unless absolutely necessary. DISCLAIMER: The views represented herein do not necessarily represent the views of the moderators. Digest contributors assume all responsibility for ensuring that articles submitted do not violate copyright protections. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 19 Dec 92 23:18:21 CST From: Moderators Subject: File 1--Thanks to all and see ya Jan 9th CuD will be on vacation from 23 December through about 8 January. Issue #5.01 will be out about January 9. We will, however, continue to answer mail and take subs over break. A special year's end THANKS!!! goes out to the gang who have maintained the CuD ftp sites: DAN (beware of flaming sambuca snorters) CAROSONE, PAUL (even if he is from the "other" university in Michigan) SOUTHWORTH, RALPH (the quiet one) SIMS, JYRKI (who will never be accused of lurking) KUOPPALA, and the guy who makes it all possible BRENDAN (the only Zen net-meister we now) KEHOE. And, special thanks to the mailserv meister at mailserv@batpad.lgb.ca.us. He's too young to mention his name, but he's done a fine job in keeping the mailserv going. As usal, the proof reeding and coyp editor, Etaion Shrdlu, Junior, has kept CuD texts error-free ofspelling and typo errors. And, of course, thanks to everybody who sent in articles (and to those who read them). The January issues will include several on the Software Publishers' Association (SPA), including interviews, commentary, and other stuff. So, see ya'll about a week after New Year's. Jim and Gordon ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 17 Dec 92 16:08:10 CST From: Joe.Abernathy@HOUSTON.CHRON.COM(Joe Abernathy) Subject: File 2--Secret Service Raids Dorm Federal Agents Raid Dorm, Seize Computer Equipment By JOE ABERNATHY Copyright 1992, Houston Chronicle The Secret Service has raided a dorm room at Texas Tech University, seizing the computers of two Houston-area students who allegedly used an international computer network to steal computer software. Agents refused to release the names of the two area men and a third from Austin, who were not arrested in the late-morning raid Monday at the university in Lubbock. Their cases will be presented to a grand jury in January. They are expected to be charged with computer crime, interstate transport of stolen property and copyright infringement. "The university detected it," said Resident Agent R. David Freriks of the Secret Service office in Dallas, which handled the case. He said that Texas Tech computer system operators contacted the Secret Service when personal credit information was found mixed with the software mysteriously filling up their fixed-disk data storage devices. The raid is the first to fall under a much broader felony definition of computer software piracy that could affect many Americans. This October revision to the copyright law was hotly debated by computer experts, who contended that it sets the felony threshold far too low. Agents allege that the three used a chat system hosted on the Internet computer network, which connects up to 15 million people in more than 40 nations, to make contacts with whom they could trade pirated software. The software was transferred over the network, into Texas Tech's computers, and eventually into their personal computers. The Secret Service seized those three personal computers and associated peripherals which an agent valued at roughly $5,000. The software Publishers Association, a software industry group chartered to fight piracy, contends that the industry lost $1.2 billion in sales in 1991 to pirates. Although these figures are widely questioned for their accuracy, piracy is widespread among Houston's 450-plus computer bulletin boards, and even more so on the global Internet. "There are a lot of underground sites on the Internet run by university system administrators, and they have tons of pirated software available to download -- gigabytes of software," said Scott Chasin, a former computer hacker who is now a computer security consultant. "There's no way that one agency or authority can go through and try to sweep all the bad software off the Internet, because the Internet's too big." The mission of the Secret Service does not normally include the pursuit of software piracy, but rather the use of "electronic access devices" such as passwords in the commission of a crime. This gives the service purview over many computer and telecommunications crimes, which often go hand-in-hand, with occasional bleedover into other areas. Freriks said that the investigation falls under a revision of the copyright laws that allows felony charges to be brought against anyone who trades more than 10 pieces of copyrighted software -- a threshold that would cover many millions of Americans who may trade copies of computer programs with their friends. "The ink is barely dry on the amendment, and you've already got law enforcement in there, guns blazing, because somebody's got a dozen copies of stolen software," said Marc Rotenberg, director of Computer Professionals for Social Responsibility, in Washington, D.C. "That was a bad provision when it was passed, and was considered bad for precisely this reason, giving a justification for over-reaching by law enforcement." Freriks noted that the raid also involved one of the first uses of an expanded right to use forfeiture against computer crime, although he was unable to state from where this authority evolved after a civil rights lawyer questioned his assertion that it was contained in the copyright law revision. "One of our complaints has always been that you catch 'em, slap 'em on the wrist, and then hand back the smoking gun," he said. "Now all that equipment belongs to the government." ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 17 Dec 92 16:32:11 CST From: Joe.Abernathy@HOUSTON.CHRON.COM(Joe Abernathy) Subject: File 3--Tales From the Crackdown Have you been accused, falsely or with cause, of a computer crime? Have you been the victim of a computer crime? Are you a law enforcement professional who would like to set the record straight? If you fit any of these, or if you're a knowledgeable, qualified observer, the Houston Chronicle would like to talk with you. We're doing a completely different kind of hacker story from the kind you're used to reading, but we need your help. We need to know about cases with which you've been involved, what went right and what went wrong. Don't be shy. We don't promise to edit reality, but you can count on us to get your story right, no matter which side of the aisle you tread, and to try to sympathize with your beliefs and objectives. More details will be forthcoming out of the glare of our competition's eyes :-) so let's talk: Joe Abernathy Joe.Abernathy@chron.com Special Projects P.O. Box 4260 The Houston Chronicle Houston, Texas 77210 (800) 735-3820 Ext 6845 (713) 220-6845 ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Nov 92 14:13:30 CST From: Mike.Riddle@IVGATE.OMAHUG.ORG(Mike Riddle) Subject: File 4--SYSLAW (Review #1) SYSLAW (Second Edition). By Lance Rose and Jonathan Wallace. Winona (Minn.): PC Information Group, Inc. 306 pp. $34.95 (paper). The old truism that law follows technology comes as no surprise to readers of the Computer Underground Digest. Many, if not most, of the (horror) stories we hear about "evil hackers", or the (sometimes) excesses of various law enforcement agencies, can be understood much better when we realize the lack of computer knowledge within society at large. System operators, be they sysadmins at a large university or commercial site, or sysops of a PC-based bulletin board in a basement or closet, increasingly have questions about their legal rights and responsibilities. Can I delete that user? Should (or can I legally) censor or delete that message or file? How can I protect myself from civil or criminal liability? Can my equipment be seized because of something a user does? SYSLAW is an attempt to explore the gap between statutes and case law on the one side, and technological reality on the other. Since the law works slowly, many of the questions about the intersection of law and technology do not have textbook answers. But "the smallest journey begins with a step." Messrs. Rose and Wallace have made a substantial step down that path. While the courts have yet to rule on many of the questions posed by sysops, sysadmins, and others, we still have fundamental principles of constitutional and communications law to rely upon. Rose and Wallace begin by exploring Sysop rights within the traditional framework of Constitutional law, particularly the First Amendment. After discussing the Constitutional principles that apply to Sysops, they then go on to explore the contractual nature of computer communications. Contracts are legally enforceable agreements, and we find them everywhere in daily life. Sometimes we even realize that a contract is involved, and a small fraction of those contracts are important enough to be written down. Bulletin boards are the same way. Explicit or implied contracts are established when a user logs on to a bulletin board. Rose and Wallace suggest the wise sysop recognize this reality, and explicitly lay out a contract for use. They also include a sample as an appendix. Another area of concern is the law of intellectual property. Who owns the posts? Does a moderator (either usenet or Fido style) have any ownership in the overall newsgroup or echo? When can messages legally be copied? What about files and executable code? While the context may be new, many of the questions are old and have relatively well-established answers. What about "injurious materials" on a bulletin board? Is the sysop liable? What did _Cubby v. Compuserve_ really decide? What are the rules on search and seizure, and what has actually happened in the few cases we know about? Does the sysop have an obligation to search for and/or warn about viruses? What about sexually explicit material? Many of these areas do not have clear answers, and one of the strengths of SYSLAW is that the authors do not attempt to invent law where it doesn't exist. But in the places where the law is unsettled, they do a good job explaining the legal, social and sometimes moral considerations that a court would consider if the question arose. They sometimes tell you what they think the result might be, or what they think it should be. They caution at the start that until courts consider several cases, and/or until we get appellate decisions, the users and operators incur some degree of risk in engaging in certain activities. The reader is left with a better understanding of the issues involved, and reasonable actions sysops might take to insulate themselves from liability of one sort or another. SysLaw is available from PC Information Group, 800-321-8285 or 507-452-2824, and located at 1126 East Broadway, Winona, MN 55987. You may order by credit card or by mail. Price is $34.95 plus $3.00 shipping and (if applicable) sales tax. Price is subject to change after January 1, 1993. For additional information, please ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 28 Nov 92 10:19:54 CDT From: Jim Thomas Subject: File 5--SYSLAW (Review #2) The U.S. Secret Service's "crackdown" on hackers in the past two years has included seizures of computer hardware running BBSes. This raises significant questions for the legal obligations of both users and sysops. The "Phrack trial," Operation Sun Devil, and--more recently--the alleged USSS involvement in disrupting law-abiding 2600 meetings underscore the importance of establishing unequivocal Constitutional protections of BBSes. SYSLAW, a comprehensive summary of the legal liabilities and obligations of BBS sysops, is mistitled: It's not simply a legal handbook for sysops, but a helpful compendium of laws and practices relevant to BBS users as well. Although both Lance Rose and Jonathan Wallace (R&W) are attorneys, the volume is written clearly and without overwhelming legal jargon, and even the casual BBS user should derive sufficient information from the volume to understand the problems sysops confront in running a board. Rose and Wallace accomplish their stated goals (p. xxii) of familiarizing readers with the kinds of legal questions arising in a BBS context, providing sysops with a legal overview of laws bearing on BBS operations, and identifying the legal ambiguities in which the law appears to provide no clear guidelines for operation, yet may place a sysop at legal risk. Syslaw is divided into nine chapters and 10 hefty appendices. The core issues in the book are 1) First Amendment and speech, 2) privacy, 3) sysop liabilities to users, and 4) sysop/user relations. In the first chapter, the authors emphasize that the question of the relationship of a BBS to the First Amendment remains unsettled, and this relationship generates considerable discussion in BBS forums and on Usenet (eg, comp.org.eff.talk). While noting that BBSs create new challenges or Constitutional interpretation, R&W identify two reasons why BBSs deserve "the full protection from legal interference granted by the First Amendment under its express protections of "speech," "press," "peaceable assembly," and "petitioning the government" (p. 2). First, BBSs are focal points for creating, collecting and disseminating information, and as such, electronic speech is "perfectly analogous to printed materials which are universally acknowledge as protected under the First Amendment." Second, R&W argue that BBSs are analogous to physical printing presses and promote the growth of alternative publishers with diverse points of view. Just as technology has expanded rights from print media other media, such broadcast radio and television, BBSs also reflect an emergent technology that functions in much the same way as the older media: BBS's ((sic)) powerfully fulfill the goal of the First Amendment by enabling effective publishing and distribution of diverse points of view, many of which never before had a voice. Protecting BBS's should be one of the primary functions of the First Amendment today (p. 3). R&W argue that there are three main ways that the First Amendment protects BBSs: (1) it sharply limits the kinds of speech that can be considered illegal on BBS', (2) it assures that the overall legal burdens on sysops will be kept light enough that they can keep their BBS' running to distribute their own speech and others', and (3) it limits the government's ability to search or seize BBS' where it would interfere with BBS' ability to distribute speech. The authors identify three kinds of BBS operations that, for First Amendment purposes, qualify for various types and amounts of protection (p. 8-17): They are simultaneously publishers, distributors, and shared message networks. The authors emphasize that speech protections are an issue between the government and the citizens, not the sysops and their users. Sysops, they remind us, can--within the law--run their boards and censor as they wish. The danger, R&W suggest, is that over-cautious sysops may engage in unnecessary self-censorship in fear of government intervention. Their goal is to provide the BBS community with guidelines that help distinguish legal from illegal speech (and files). The remaining chapters address topics such as sysop liability when injurious activities or materials occur on a BBS, the sysops obligations when obviously illegal behavior is discovered, the "problem" of sexual explicit materials, and searches and seizures. Of special interest is the chapter on contractual obligations between sysop and users (chapter 2) in which they suggest that one way around many of the potential legal liabilities a sysop might face with users is to require a binding "caller contract" that explicitly delineates the rights and obligations of each party. They provide a sample contract (Appendix A) that, if implemented at the first-call in screen progression format (any unwillingness to agree to the terms of the contract prevents the caller from progressing into the system) that they judge to be legally binding if the caller completes the contract by agreeing to its terms. The Appendixes also include a number of federal statutes that provide a handy reference for readers. These include statues on child pornography, state computer crime laws, and federal computer fraud and abuse acts. My one, in fact my only, objection to the book was to a rather hyperbolic swipe at "pirate boards:" Only a tiny minority of BBS's operate as "pirate boards" for swapping stolen software, computer access codes, viruses etc. When these criminal boards are seized and shut down by the authorities everyone benefits (p. 6). This rather excessive and simplistic view of "piracy" seems to contradict both their intent to improve understanding of new technology and corresponding behaviors by avoiding such extreme words as "stolen software" and to clarify the nuances in various forms of behavior in ways that distinguish between, for example, casual swapping of copyright files and profiteering. This, however, is a minor quibble (and will be taken up in future issues of CuD focusing on piracy and the Software Publishers' Association). Syslaw should be required reading for all BBSers. Unfortunately, it is available *only* from PC Information group, Inc. Those wishing to obtain a copy can write the publisher at: 1125 East Broadway Winona, MN 55987 Voice: (800-321-8285 / 507-452-2824 Fax: 507-452-0037 If ordering directly, add $3.00 (US) to the $34.95 price for shipping. ------------------------------ Date: 01 Dec 92 10:33:25 EST From: Lance Rose <72230.2044@COMPUSERVE.COM> Subject: File 6--Model BBS/User Contract (from SYSLAW) Appendix A Sample Caller Contract (from SysLaw) The following sample contract provides some guidelines for a sysop's contract with his or her callers. Everyone's BBS and services are a little different, so it is not recommended that readers use this sample in "plain vanilla" form as their own contract. If possible, ask a lawyer comfortable with online activities to review the form and recommend any changes necessary for your particular BBS. BULLETIN BOARD SERVICES AGREEMENT A. Introduction We start every new caller relationship with a contract. It spells out what you can expect from us, and what we expect from you. We do not know each caller personally, so it is important to set out the ground rules clearly in advance. If you agree to what you read below, welcome to our system! An instruction screen at the end of the contract will show you how to sign up. If you have any questions about any part of the contract, please send us an e-mail about it! We will be glad to explain why these contract provisions are important for our system. We are willing to work with you on making changes if you can show us you have a better approach. Please remember - until you and we have an agreement in place, you will not receive full access to our system. B. Access and Services. (1) Access - We will give you full access to all file and message areas on our system. Currently, these include: Public message areas - reading and posting messages. We are also a member of Fidonet, which means you can join in public discussions with callers of other bulletin boards around the world. File transfer areas - uploading, downloading files and browsing files E-mail - sending and receiving messages (please see the section on privacy, below) Chat areas - real-time discussions with other callers who are online at the same time as you Gateways - permitting you to send e-mail to systems on other computer networks. Currently, we have an Internet gateway in place, and we operate as a Fidonet node. (2) Services - We offer a variety of services to our callers, and are adding more all the time. Our current services include: Daily electronic news from nationally syndicated news services. Free classified advertising for our callers, in an area subdivided into different product categories. Virus hotline - an area with frequently updated news on computer virus outbreaks, new forms of virus detected, new ways to protect your computer, and other matters of interest. QMail (TM) services, allowing you to upload and download all messages you are interested in batch form. If you would like to set up a private discussion area on our system for a group, we will be glad to do so for fees and terms to be discussed. (3) We may change or discontinue certain access or services on our system for time to time. We will try to let you know about such changes a month or more in advance. C. Price and Payment (1) We will charge you a monthly fee for using our system. For $15 per month, you can use our system each month for up to 40 hours of connect time, and you can send up to 200 electronic mail messages. For additional use, you will be required to pay additional charges of 50 cents an hour, and 10 cents per electronic mail message. (2) Certain services on our system require additional fees. Please review the complete price list in the Caller Information area before signing up for any such services. The price list will tell you which services are included in the standard monthly fee, and which are extra. (3) You may pay by check or by credit card. You will be given the opportunity to choose the payment method when you sign up. If you choose to pay by credit card, we will automatically bill the amount due to your credit card account at the end of every month. If you choose to pay by check, we will send you an invoice at the end of every month. Payment is due within twenty days after we send your invoice. (4) We can change the prices and fees at any time, except that our existing customers will receive two months notice of any change. All price changes will be announced in opening screen bulletins. D. System Rules Besides payment, the only thing we ask from you is that you follow the rules we set for use of the system. You will find our rules in two places: in the following list here in the contract, and in the bulletins posted at various points in the system. Here are some of the basic rules for our system: Respect other callers of the system. Feel free to express yourself, but do not do anything to injure or harm others. In particular, if you dislike someone else's ideas, you can attack the ideas, but not the person. We want people to speak freely on our system. But if you misuse that freedom to abuse others, we will take the liberty of cutting that discussion short. Do not use our system for anything that might be illegal. This system may not be used to encourage anything to do with illegal drugs, gambling, pornography, prostitution, child pornography, robbery, spreading computer viruses, cracking into private computer systems, software infringement, trafficking in credit card codes, or other crimes. People sometimes have trouble figuring out whether certain activities are illegal. It's usually not that hard. If it's illegal out there, it's illegal in here! Using a bulletin board system to commit a crime does not make it less of a crime. In fact, if you use a bulletin board system to commit a crime, you're exposing the operators of the system, and its other callers, to legal risks that should be yours alone. If you genuinely do not know whether something you'd like to do is legal or illegal, please discuss it with us before you proceed. And if we tell you we do not want you to pursue your plans on our system, please respect our decision. Respect the security of our system. Do not try to gain access to system areas private to ourselves, or to other callers. Some callers try to crack system security just to show it can be done. Don't try to demonstrate this on our system. E. Privacy We offer private electronic mail on our system as a service to our callers. We will endeavor to keep all of your e-mail private, viewable only by you and the person to whom you address it, except: We, as system operators, may need to look at your electronic mail if we believe it is necessary to protect ourselves or other callers from injury or damage. For example, if we have reason to believe a caller is involved in illegal activities, which creates a risk that our system could be seized by the authorities, we will review his or her electronic mail for our own protection. We will not, however, monitor electronic mail unless we believe it is being misused. We will not deliberately disclose electronic mail to other callers. If we believe certain electronic mail is connected with illegal activities, we may disclose it to the authorities to protect our system, ourselves and other callers. Remember that the person to whom you send electronic mail does not need to keep it secret. The sender or receiver of electronic mail has the right to make it public. If the authorities ever search or seize our system, they may gain access to your private electronic mail. In that case, we cannot assure they will not review it. Remember that you have personal rights of privacy that even the government cannot legally violate, though you may have to go to court to enforce those rights. F. Editorial Control We want our system to be a worthwhile place for all of our callers. This does not mean everyone can do whatever they choose on this system, regardless of its effect on others. It is our job to accommodate the common needs of all callers while striving to meet our own goals for the system. We will not monitor all messages and file transfers. We want to keep the message and file traffic moving quickly and smoothly - this goal would be defeated if we monitored everything on the system. However, if we see (or hear about) messages or other activities that violate the rules, threaten the order or security of the system, or use the system in ways we do not agree with, we will take appropriate action. Our editorial control includes normal housekeeping activities like changing subject headers and deleting profanities in public messages and selecting among uploaded files for those we wish to make available for download. It also goes beyond that. If a caller persists in posting messages or transferring files that we previously warned him should not be on the system, those messages will be deleted, and he or she may be locked out. If we discover any caller violating the rules, especially the prohibition against illegal activities, we will act firmly and swiftly. Depending on the circumstances, the caller involved will be warned, or simply locked out. If the caller has done anything to put us or other callers in jeopardy, we may contact the authorities. We do not plan on doing any of these things. If all callers act with respect and regard for us and for other callers, there will never be any problems. But if problems arise, we will assert control over our system against any caller who threatens it. And in this Agreement, you acknowledge that control. G. Ownership of Materials You shall retain all rights to all original messages you post and all original files you upload. Likewise, you must respect the ownership rights of others in their own messages and files. You may not post or upload any messages or files unless you own them, or you have full authority to transmit them to this system. We own certain things you will find on this system, including the "look and feel" of the system, the name of our system, and the collective work copyright in sequences of public messages on our system. You cannot reproduce any message thread from our system, either electronically or in print, without our permission and the permission of all participants in the thread. This is not a complete list - other things on the system are also our property. Before you copy anything from our system with plans of reproducing it or distributing it, contact us about it. H. Limitation of Liability and Indemnity. The great danger for us, and for all operators of bulletin board systems, is that we might be held accountable for the wrongful actions of our callers. If one caller libels another caller, the injured caller might blame us, even though the first caller was really at fault. If a caller uploads a program with a computer virus, and other callers' computers are damaged, we might be blamed even though the virus was left on our board by a caller. If a caller transfers illegal credit card information to another caller through private electronic mail, we might be blamed even though we did nothing more than unknowingly carry the message from one caller to another. We did not start this system to take the blame for others' actions, and we cannot afford to operate it if we must take that blame. Accordingly, we need all callers to accept responsibility for their own acts, and to accept that an act by another caller that damages them must not be blamed on us, but on the other caller. These needs are accomplished by the following paragraph: You agree that we will not be responsible to you for any indirect, consequential, special or punitive damages or losses you may incur in connection with our system or any of the data or other materials transmitted through or residing on our system, even if we have been advised of the possibility of such damage or loss. In addition, you agree to defend and indemnify us and hold us harmless from and against any and all claims, proceedings, damages, injuries, liabilities, losses, costs and expenses (including reasonable attorneys fees) relating to any acts by you or materials or information transmitted by you in connection with our system leading wholly or partially to claims against us or our system by other callers or third parties. I. Choice of Law Our bulletin board system can be reached by callers from all fifty states, and around the world. Each of these places has a different set of laws. Since we cannot keep track of all these laws and their requirements, you agree that the law of our own state, ________, will apply to all matters relating to this Agreement and to our bulletin board system. In addition, you agree and consent that if you ever take legal action against us, the courts of our own state, _______, will have exclusive jurisdiction over any such legal actions. J. General This agreement is the entire understanding between you and us regarding your relationship to our bulletin board system. If either you or we fail to notify the other of any violations of this agreement, this will not mean that you or we cannot notify the other of future violations of any part of this agreement. [Contract sign-up process] ------------------------------ End of Computer Underground Digest #4.67 ************************************